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On public and private personas...

Telescope
So, about a week ago, my dad, who has been reading science fiction since the days of "G-8 and his Flying Aces", was chatting with me (on FaceTime) about Old Man's War. He liked the beginning, didn't care much about how it developed. Speaking as an old writer himself (at 96 years old, he qualifies!) he also expressed an off-hand opinion about some of Scalzi's writerly tics, mentioning in passing "I would have liked to have edited that stuff."

Now, the odd thing (which I suspect he didn't realize) is that I happen to know the guy who actually did edit that book. (Hi, pnh !)

And that weird interface between the "faceless editor" we can safely rail against and the person whom I had dinner with last September has come up against recently in discussions about Pope Benedict.

To my mind Pope Benedict is many overlapping people... He is the (by definition impersonal) world leader whom we can all have strong opinions about, for and against. He is also the person I saw within the place I work, still from a distance but at much closer quarters, operating within a structure that I know I've been constantly puzzled by. The Vatican is about the size of middling high school, 500 employees total, a place that sometimes can do wonderful things in an instant, while other times resisting even some of Pope's more technical (and presumably non-controversial) reforms. But Pope Benedict is also the human being to whom I gave a tour of my lab, who laughed at my jokes and told one or two of his own.

It's odd to hear criticisms about someone I have actually met. It's hard to hear; even if the criticisms are valid.

Meanwhile, I am on a speaking tour in North America and the British Isles (including a short trip to Dublin) and facing the fact that I too am both a public and a private persona. People like my talks, that's why I get to keep giving them; and they like to tell me so. But I get really uncomfortable hearing myself praised. (Not nearly as uncomfortable as when I hear myself criticized, of course!) I feel the pressure to try to live up to the absurd expectations of fans. Likewise, I feel the need to not live down to the absurd expectations of those who, often for understandable reasons, see me as a personification of institutions they have real problems with -- both Big Religion and Big Science.

And the most awkward moments can be with the people with whom I am slowly translating in role from the one (public persona) to the other (friend). I have met some celebrities of fandom and of science where I feel exhilarated to be in their presence, but not yet relaxed enough that I don't also have the fear of saying something really stupid in front of them (something I am very capable of doing, without warning). The lesson is, to be sure that when I'm on the other side of the table, I likewise also learn to give the same slack to my fans that I hope they give to me.

Comments

( 24 comments — Leave a comment )
elisem
Feb. 24th, 2013 07:24 pm (UTC)
It's odd to hear criticisms about someone I have actually met. It's hard to hear; even if the criticisms are valid.

Yes. That.

Thank you for talking about this stuff; it's helping some pieces fit together that I've been pondering.
wldrose
Feb. 24th, 2013 08:19 pm (UTC)
I have been thinking of you and my Aunt (she is a Sacred Heart nun who runs a hospital and school in Uganda) Like you in the course of her work she has dealt with Most of the modern Popes. (and I worry about saying something stupid to either of you)

I think it must be so hard to be put in the place of having to deal with something out side of your field. Not even getting in to the religious aspect.

I wish you peace and strength for the events to come.
cakmpls
Feb. 24th, 2013 08:27 pm (UTC)
This is very interesting, and I'm glad I read it. Everyone I know/have known personally who is famous, whether in SF or otherwise, I knew as the person before the celebrity. That is, they became famous (or in one case, infamous) after</> I already knew them.
tree_and_leaf
Feb. 24th, 2013 09:00 pm (UTC)
It's odd to hear criticisms about someone I have actually met. It's hard to hear; even if the criticisms are valid.

Yes; the same thing also applies to members of parties or groups. I've noticed this a lot since starting at theological college, actually. I am an Anglo-Catholic with fairly trad tastes in liturgy, and I was also a member of an undergraduate Anglican society with a bunch of "traditionalists". So I know a number of opponents of women's ordination, and some of them have been quite important in how I learned the faith, and, ironically, in how my sense of vocation emerged. So I know that they don't all have horns and a tail, and while I don't (obviously) agree with them on the question, I know that it's not a question of misogyny (it is in some cases, but not here). And I find it really hard to deal with it when my colleagues talk about them as if they were either malevolent or stupid...
raisinbottom
Feb. 24th, 2013 09:08 pm (UTC)
For what it's worth, I'm disappointed most of the papal candidates are over the age of sixty. It'd be meaningful if someone who was 30-40 was chosen for the position. I'll be happy if the pope's a non-European.
brotherguy
Feb. 25th, 2013 02:44 am (UTC)
The trouble is, popes are like kittens. No matter how young they are when you get them, they eventually get old anyway. (JPII was very young when elected, after all.)

And besides, having just turned 60 myself, I don't consider that old at all!
Melinda Hutson
Feb. 26th, 2013 10:12 pm (UTC)
Not old at all
When I read this, I said "no way, not 60, you're only a few years older than I am". Then I said "oops". I guess 60 is the new 27???
klwilliams
Feb. 25th, 2013 12:27 am (UTC)
I bet that the people you're worried about embarrassing yourself in front of have their own list of people that they act like fanboys in front of themselves. I was talking to Peter David (who is in my thoughts a lot these days, since he recently suffered a stroke, but he seems to be recovering fairly well) at an LA comic book convention, and while I was talking to him Harlan Ellison called him up to invite him over. If you realize that to me, Harlan Ellison was my first fangirl crush, I have all of his novels and comics and recorded works and and and...and he just called Peter to invite him over. I consider Peter a friend, not a god of writing, but Peter told me he feels pretty much the way I do about Harlan, and gets the same kind of squee when Harlan calls him up to invite him over. So, yeah. People that you squee over have their set, too. It's nice if the people who squee about meeting you know that, too. (I mean, you gave the Pope a tour of your lab. How cool is that?) (My husband has met J.R.R. Tolkien *and* Gandalf. I squee that I'm married to this guy, and not just for the obvious reasons.) (I think your father and my husband's mother, who are of an age, should meet. They could bond over having famous writer sons who travel the world but never come visit.)

beamjockey
Feb. 25th, 2013 01:47 am (UTC)
Perhaps I should count myself fortunate that when we met, you were not overawed by my dazzling celebrity.
brotherguy
Feb. 25th, 2013 03:31 am (UTC)
Oh, you used to be famous?
beamjockey
Feb. 25th, 2013 06:27 am (UTC)
The once and future Higgins...
brotherguy
Feb. 25th, 2013 02:39 pm (UTC)
Consisting of: The Higgins in the Stone; the Higgins of Air and Darkness; The Higgins-made Knight; and The Higgins in the Wind

(What, you would have preferred the Sword in the Higgins, The Queen of Higgins and Darkness, The Ill-made Higgins, and the Candle in the Higgins?)
bibliofile
Mar. 2nd, 2013 07:19 pm (UTC)
And to think that I knew you when you were just a little bit famous and, maybe -- not quite or just becoming? -- a Heterodyne Boy. (Not sure when Phil actually wrote the thing, as opposed to when it was published.)

Oddly enough, working on SF cons has helped me with the awkward conversational pauses with distant relations and not just objects of my fan adoration. It's trying to come up with at least one mildly amusing anecdote or something, with pets, kids and the weather as fallback topics.

It also helps to know a little about a celebrity figure's humanity, even second- or third-hand. In that way, it's cool that you talk about having met Pope Benedict as a regular person. It's not as though he's likely to crack jokes from the pulpit, so that's a side that I for one will never see.
bibliofile
Mar. 2nd, 2013 07:24 pm (UTC)
(Of course, if meeting the man in the future, I'd spend some energy trying not to blurt out a question about the infallibility thing. Fortunately, I usually manage to contain those sorts of impulses. If it happens, though, I'll try to do it before he finds out that you and I are at all acquainted....)
brotherguy
Mar. 3rd, 2013 04:42 pm (UTC)
Actually, "infallibility" does not mean what you think it means. It's all explained, of course, in one of my books. (Buy them all and find out which one!)
tlunquist
Feb. 25th, 2013 08:37 pm (UTC)
No mere celebrity -- a HETERODYNE BOY!!
docmadison
Feb. 25th, 2013 08:39 pm (UTC)
Squee? Yeah, it happens all the time.
I worked on a show with Ian McKellen for a little while when he was doing Acting Shakespeare in Boston. What an amazing person. But after one of the shows I decided to walk up to him and introduce myself. But when I did, amidst a kind of fan frenzy around him, all I could say was "hi", and he stopped, looked at me and just said "hi" back, while his eyes just pierced me. It was the same kind of "hi", with small letters, he was as nervous as I was, but it was a real and personal experience. There is something to this hero worship thing, the public person versus the private, and all of the other people we are. You raise an excellent point, Brother Guy. I've always loved the way you think, and yes I admit that you are one of my heroes.
tlunquist
Feb. 25th, 2013 08:44 pm (UTC)
In these sorts of situations, as in many similar and related ones, I find it is helpful and important to meditate very intentionally on the difference between my *self* and whatever particular attitudes, beliefs, or opinions I may hold.

As a Pagan, I'm fairly likely to have a few points of disagreement with you on matters of spirituality now and again. I probably also have notions about science that you would consider inaccurate or naive, and we probably have divergent tastes in various things (being, after all, two different people). None of that does, or should, stand in the way of us being friends, or of us admiring each other for our respective strengths.

I certainly disagree quite stridently with some of Pope Benedict's opinions and beliefs. That doesn't mean I think he must be some sort of odious monster. (I reserve that assessment for Mitt Romney.)(KIDDING!) Those who get on best in the world are those who can accept and respect that each individual really is just doing the best they can with the information they have. People, as a species, love their children and want to do the right thing, however they define that. The problem is in the assumptions we make about others, not in the intentions we hold ourselves.

Thus, as Don Miguel Ruiz recommends, we should never take anything personally.
apostle_of_eris
Feb. 25th, 2013 09:15 pm (UTC)
(Why I keep our relationship personal and not institutional!)
“Remember, thou too were once a neo!”
Something I tell neos to reassure them: there are two experiences which are universal here: every single person at this con was at a first con for the first time; every single person here had a very first encounter with a Big Name.

. . . and I'm just surfing for a few minutes before heading down to your performance in 45 minutes. I'll wave from the audience.
brotherguy
Feb. 26th, 2013 02:11 pm (UTC)
My dad writes: "A correction about my age. I was born April 7, 1918. So I'm only 95. Almost."

OK, so I always exaggerate. Always! Always!
kevinnickerson
Feb. 28th, 2013 12:22 am (UTC)
My first thought when I heard your landlord was retiring: I had no idea Br. Guy was such an annoying tenant.

Yeah, just the broken way my mind works. FSVO 'works'.
brotherguy
Feb. 28th, 2013 01:27 am (UTC)
Notice actually that he's moving *into* the area where I live.

Notice also that I won't be back there until about the time that he'll be getting ready to go back to Rome.
kevinnickerson
Mar. 2nd, 2013 03:11 pm (UTC)
I had thought he was moving in with a bunch of nuns, but now I see that CNN says he'll first "go to the papal seaside retreat, Castle Gandolfo"
papersky
Feb. 28th, 2013 05:12 pm (UTC)
This is a problem I have also had.

I'd purely hate to be as famous as Neil Gaiman or the Pope.
( 24 comments — Leave a comment )